Eitan: Welcome to the MetaShtetl, this is Eitan Binstock. I inherited the Yiddish language and culture from my parents, grandparents, and great grandparents, and I am interested in exploring the way it’s been flourishing in the 21st century. Specifically, how technology is being used to spread and proliferate Yiddish worldwide. Before I start welcome my first guest and switch to Yiddish, please note the full translations of the podcast can be viewed at my blog www.themetajstelt.com, feel free to follow along, and thank you for coming along on this adventure with me. And now for my guest, please welcome Arun Vishwanath, author of Harry Potter and the Sorcerer Stone in Yiddish, called Harry Potter un Der filosofisher shteyn, as we switch the language we both want to share with all of you. SHOLEM aleichem Arun, undzer ershter bekovediker gast, zay azoy gut un leyg zikh for far undzer oilom.What role did Yiddish play in your childhood year? Did you learn Yiddish outside the home as well, and also, what other languages do you speak and where did you learn them?
Arun: I am called Arale Vishvanath, I am 32 years old and I live in Washington Heights, New York. I grew up in a suburb of New York, called Teaneck, it’s a Modern Orthodox Jewish community, and I attended modern orthodox schools, Yavneh, TABC, Frisch, they are all schools in the Modern Orthodox community, I don’t have an official trade but I so to speak fell into a technological firm, I work at Instagram, and I work on the algorithms that determine what is shown to each user and how and when, and in my childhood years in my home two languages were spoken, one language was spoken to us by our Father, that was Tamil, which is a language from southern India, because he is Indian, and with our mother we spoke only Yiddish. And between us we spoke mostly Yiddish. Occasionally we supplemented with English and sometimes we also spoke Tamil but Yiddish was truly the main language between me and my two sisters; my older one Min Lifshe, and the younger one Malka-Leah. Outside the home, there was a lot of Yiddish, we used to travel with our mother to various cultural events, and each Sunday we used to go into the city, the first ten years it was in the old Workmen Circle building, it could be that Workmen Circle still occupies that building, and that was Pripetchik, that was a kind of Sunday school organized by the parents themselves. I and my sisters, my cousins and a few other families – I think in the first or second generation of Pripetchik your mother was a student – and that was every Sunday for three or four hours and enjoy ourselves with other children and later it was a little more structured, we also learned some literature.
Eitan: Yes I just found out about Pripetchik, I asked my mother and she was in the first Pripetchik group, which took place in Park Avenue Synagogue with Sore-Rukhl as teacher in the early 1980s. Yiddish and Tamil create quite an interesting combination. I speak Yiddish and a little Spanish from my family, but I imagine that Yiddish and Tamil is found much more rarely. I do not even know how Tamil sounds, it would be interesting to hear it sometime. What is your main job, can you talk a little about your main work, does Yiddish language and culture relate to your main work or do you feel that Yiddish and your job occupy separate channels in your mind and in your life?
Arun: I said earlier that I don’t have a trade but that’s not totally true, I studied linguistics which is the science of language, and my grandfather was a linguist and my father – that is, my grandfather on my mother’s side was a linguist, and my father was also a great lover of languages and that was passed on to me from both my father and my mother. My mother obviously was very involved in Yiddish, she redacted a Yiddish dictionary that was published a few years ago, so I understood from around maybe age 15, I understood I would also be a linguist and that would also be my path, I studies linguistics in college. My BA was in linguistics, and after that I took on the study of linguistics in graduate school and I planned to get a doctorate, and finally I looked around and realized I am not an academic, I don’t know why my mind doesn’t work that way, I don’t have the discipline to be an academic, and I was also a little afraid that it would not be a realistic way to make a living, meaning the income would not stick [support me] so I decided to leave linguistics in my professional life but it remained something important outside work, I am involved as an executive in the Yiddish League, I was for many years involved in Yugntruf – Youth for Yiddish, and in the last five years I took on Yiddish in a more personal way, and that is translation. I began translating various documents, some were small jobs that people would send me, saying: I found a package of letters in my grandfather’s attic, maybe you can translate them. Or I translated press communications from Yugntruf, so it was all ad hoc so to speak, not big undertakings, but that’s how I sharpened by language knowledge because without that I would be able to say that my Yiddish was mainly from the home and limited in many way but not fully developed.
Eitan: Linguistics and technology – you say you fell into both of them, but it seems to me that your studies and various work experience put you on the path to arrive where you are. So, how are the languages you speak interwoven with each other?
Arun: So as I said, my father was a great lover of languages, and I myself love languages, I don’t know why, I think it has to do with when you learn a language, it’s a way to build a connection with another person and when a person doesn’t speak English, or even if a person does speak English but speaks another language at home or can speak another language better, when you speak to that person in his language, he can understand that you value him not just - he understands that you value him in his whole being, that you are not – how can I explain this – there is a stereotype that Americans think only of themselves and they believe that everyone must learn their language, English, and they do not bother with other languages and other cultures, and the learning of other languages is a way to make space for other people and to how them that their culture is also very important and that there is something to learn from every language and every culture. I studies many languages in college I studied linguistic and in addition I took courses in many languages, including, firstly obviously I learned English from friends and in school, and beyond that in school I studied Hebrew so I speak that quite well, and further in college I got a language “bug” so there I studied, let me see, Japanese, Persian, Russian, Spanish, yes Spanish I had already started studying in middle school, Hindi, French, German, and I learned a little Chinese and Arabic but when one already learns 3-4 languages one sees it’s impossible – except for the few experts who can do it – it’s generally very difficult to be able to speak more than 5-6 languages at a time very well, when you don’t keep studying, a person is just a person and a person has limited strengths, so in those times I might have said that I speak 4-5 languages well but I can carry a conversation in maybe ten languages.
Eitan: Holy Cow, I say in English, because that is really quite a lot of languages, even if people have limited abilities. What is Yiddish for you today as an adult, why is it important to you?
Arun: Yiddish has always been personally and for my family, not just my Yiddish but my life, it’s the center of my relationships with my two sisters and with my cousins, and obviously my relationship with my mother, but with time I added more reasons and motivations, I understood that even though we did not talk at home about the Holocaust, and the Holocaust did not play a determinate or active role in our family mission, now I see, 20-30 years later, that it is stuck in and the murder of millions of jews that spoke Yiddish, that played a very definitive role in the development of Yiddish and Yiddishism that developed after the Holocaust. Meaning, Yiddish was certainly a key component before the Holocaust, it developed greatly after the first World War and flourished between the world wars but the form of Yiddishism which we have today was very influenced in the fact of the Holocaust so we must not look away from that. So for me it’s a Jewish thing, it’s also a must, meaning even if I did not like Yiddish I would feel it’s important, but now that I have thank God a little daughter who is there years old, it’s not just a Yiddish from my parents but it’s a Yiddish for my children, and God willing for my children’s children. So why is it important? I don’t know. It’s important because it’s mine, it’s important because it belongs to me nation and to my family, and I don’t know if there is anything deeper than that but that is enough for me.
Eitan: Yes, it’s enough that you feel it belongs to you, the previous generations of your family and our nation, and now the future generations. Do you enjoy Yiddish? Why and when? Do you have a favorite word or phrase?
Arun: I very much enjoy Yiddish, I love to find out about various aspects of Yiddish at different times, how the language developed, and geographically how dialects developed and how the language is different in literature than in real life situations; how is it different between educated people than between laborers, obviously those are differences from long ago, today we can say we are all educated, but still the language is different between religious Jews meaning Chasidim and Yiddishsist and general Yiddish speakers. These differences were always interesting to me and still interesting to me today. And that is also in my translation of Harry Potter but we’ll get to that. Do I have a favorite a favorite word or phrase in Yiddish? I don’t know about that, I try to keep learning more Yiddish, I read Sholem Aleivhem, which is easer said than done, because Sholem Aleichem is written in a very rich and luscious Yiddish, and unfortunately much of our language is weakened because firstly – one shouldn’t say completely weakened, - it’s true that those of us who do not have the privilege, or for whom its’ not realistic to speak Yiddish all day every day like one could say for the Chasidim, besides that the languages has developed and changed from Sholem Aleichem which is more than 100 years old, one must study it and sit with a dictionary so I keep learning more words and phrases, so I don’t want to say I have a favorite word or phrase.
Eitan: it’s interesting how languages develop, and sad that important parts fall away. It happens surely with other languages as well, but since we lost so many Yiddish speakers in the Holocaust, we surely lost so many parts much faster than normal, including the parts from Sholem Aleichem’s literature. Imagine that when he dies, two hundred thousand people attended his funeral, and today, fluent Yiddish speakers need a dictionary to read his work. Speaking of famous writers, how did it occur to you to translate Harry Potter into Yiddish? Why did you choose that specific project?
Arun: the idea to translate Harry Potter into Yiddish was actually not mine, it was from my wife. She, like me, grew up in a Modern Orthodox community in New York, on Long Island, and he is a big fan of Harry Potter, just like me. She read the books as a child; I read that books and that’s it, but for it remained a favorite book and series, and she reread them countless times. And when we spoke five years ago that we would someday have kids, I said that I would like to speak to the children in Yiddish, so she said it would be big sin to bring children into the world where there is no Harry Potter in Yiddish. So she said I should really translate it. So yes, when the wife tells you to do something you do it, and that’s how it came to be.
Eitan: I hope you’ll be able to read I to your daughter someday. And hopefully she’ll be able to read it on her own someday. How did these thoughts affect your translation?
Arun: I don’t have much to say on literary theory or translation theory. But I must mention first that when one translates, regardless in which way, there is always a break between the original and the translation. Meaning, when you translate something, and you give it over in a new language, it becomes something different, something new. It must be new, there is no choice. But the translator is obligated to be loyal to the original, and beyond that there is a lot of flexibility, one must consider for whom one translates, so for example, when we refer to my translation of Harry Potter, I had to consider who will read my translation, to whom will this be appealing, and the answer was not entirely clear. I knew that first of all the translation would be for my children, and more broadly, for all children who are being raised in today’s world who would otherwise be short on children’s (or teen) literature in Yiddish, because in my childhood years there wasn’t – well we had Sholem Aleichem and YL Peretz which is not really children’s literature, or there were books from the Chassidic world whose themes were quite limited, and beyond that what di we have? There was children’s literature from between the World War years, and those didn’t appeal much to us and the subjects were also strange to us, in terms of the time and place. Let me return to the question – it depends on the audience. I understood that my audience will mostly have already read Harry Potter in English, and will know the story and main themes. So I knew from the get go that the characters would remain the same, the story would obviously remain the same. But it would be useless to produce a translation that reads like a wooden translation, meaning Yiddish words that have been plugged in to an English sentence. It’s not enough just to translate the words. First one must chew up the original, one must internalize it, one must understand what it’s about, what is the tone and the nuances, and one must then produce a version that feel natural in Yiddish. And that’s not simple because Yiddish can be spoken in many ways. When people say Yiddish is a rich language, it does not just mean that it’s because of Schumacher or Sholem Aleichem, but maybe it’s just that: when one speaks Yiddish it’s a luscious language, but Yiddish is also efficient as a neutrally spoken language. One can communicate neutrally, just like the way I am talking now. I would not say I’m speaking such a luscious Yiddish, but I am speaking neutrally, I am answering your questions, and it mustn’t be Lucious, but I wanted the translation to be not just neutral but also luscious. And to achieve that the translation takes on a Yiddish flavor, a Yiddish dressing of sorts. For example, in a specific moment, harry finds himself – I don’t remember exactly the scene – but he finds himself in a session or class that was stretching out for a very long time, so I translated it as the class shlepped on like the exile. And here one must be very careful, but obviously that’s a reference to a Jewish concept, but I took care not to say for example, the class shelpped [dragged] on like the Jewish Exile. There is always a gap between the reader’s understanding of Jewish themes and Jewish concepts and to saying it directly. So that’s the gap between translating into Yiddish language – a Jewish language – and staying authentic to the original.
Eitan: is it true that you use authentic Yiddish phrases and traditional references even though your translation is also fitting to the English? How did you achieve that and what was your goal with it?
Arun: So I spoke a little about the gap between the original and Yiddish as a Jewish language. But there is also a gap between the writer and my own, meaning, sometimes the translation comes out as something new, something new, and that has bee careful because it can it can seem audacious for a translator to convey things that he should not have. So I will give an example. The most popular sport in the world of wizards is Quiddich, which is a sport that is played by riding around on broomsticks, balls are thrown and aimed at goals, it’s a mix between soccer and polo and magical stuff. So I could have called it QViddich in the translation, it would not have hurt anything, no one would have looked too much at that, but I remembered that in Yiddish there is a phrase – When God Wants to, He Shoots a Broom, the phrase can be interpreted in several ways but one way to interpret it is that everything is possible if God wants it. So the world of magic is a world of wonders and of course if God wants it, everything is possible, so I realized that with that phrase – When God Wants to He Shoots a Broom, I realized that since one plays Quiddich by riding on broomsticks, I could weave them together in the translation. So it occurred to me to call the game ShisBezim [BroomShoot] so Quiddish is called Broomshoot in Yiddish. This was one way I found it befitting to bring in some of my ownness, but one must be careful because as I said, one must consider who the audience is, as since my audience would have read harry Potter in English, they would recognize the familiar characters and familiar elements of the wizard world, so if [my translation] was completely different, the reader would feel disoriented and the reader would feel as if too much was changed and it’s now something unfamiliar. So I felt I must translate it that way; like there is a phrase in Yiddish – Promote Yiddish so that the translation can be woven into Yiddish, but for the most part I stayed true to the original.
Eitan: I am very familiar with Quiddish and I really like the introduction of the Yiddish phrase about brooms. While reading Harry Potter in English, did you feel a Jewish undertone in the story? What is for you the connection between the original Harry Potter and Yiddish/Jewish culture and tradition?
Arun: It’s interesting that you bring this up, I myself did not detect Yiddish/Jewish elements or undertones in the story of Harry Potter. But my father-in-law, may he live long, he grew up in Switzerland, in the city of Basil, Switzerland, and he grew up in a Jewish community but a small one, not like Teaneck. Later when he was an adult and he read harry Potter, he wondered how the author JK Rowling, knew what it was like to grow up as a Jew in Europe among non-Jews. Meaning, he felt a Jewish undertone that the wizards are the Jews and the goblins are the non-Jews, the Goyim. And it’s very interesting that he interpreted it this way, and he is not the only one – far from the only one, because one can also find other Jewish elements in the story. Obviously when it comes to themes: good and evil, morality, friendship, one can read Jewish values into all these things. But what’s interesting is that when we talk about the goblins as Jews it’s important to remember that some people see antisemitism in the goblins, because they are a separated nation let’s say, and they have to do with money and gold and control the banks and they have a secret language which they speak only amongst themselves, and in general they are very closed off, not open to the world, they are downtrodden and one must remember that the author describes them as creatures with long noses, one can imagine stereotypical Jewish noses. So I myself think the mythology from which she took much of her material could have some antisemitism in it, but not the author herself. But that’s why when I saw that the goblins have certain Jewish traits it was fitting they should also have a certain Jewish traits [in my translation], but very subtly. For example, when harry Potter goes for the first time to the bank and wants to access his account and take out gold, the person working at the bank is called Odm, meaning master, which is a [slang] word that we see in Yiddish literature that references a Goy but we didn’t want them to understand or we didn’t want them to know we were disrespecting them, the Jews called them Odm, but it’s a secret language meaning – you are not one of ours. That is another perhaps too subtle way that I wove Yiddish [literary] elements into the story.
Eitan: As you surely know, the author of Harry Potter, JK Rowling, is now living through a hard time because of a few comments she made. Would you like to comment on that as a supporter – or ex-supporter of hers and her work? Does it affect your decision about whether or not to take on another book about harry Potter?
Arun: I don’t look too carefully at the various political debates in which the author is involved. It does not affect my translating work, I am continuing to work on it, I still love [Harry Potter], I see that the greater audience still loves it, I know there are people who completely rejected Harry Potter and every person may do what he wants. I myself am continuing to work on the second book, and I hope it will be released next year, God willing, and that’s a separate issue.
Eitan: Thank you, maybe it’s important not to make everything important. Do you have a image or vision about how Yiddish can develop in the next few generations of this century?
Arun: I am happy that you mention the future of Yiddish, not because I have a vision, I don’t actually have one, but one must recognize that most Yiddish speakers are Chassidim, and they are the carriers of the future of Yiddish in large part, but Yiddish is also very rich and has a long history, and it’s not clear to me that the Chasidim will carry it or are interested in carrying that forward, and every Yiddishist has the obligation and privilege to carry forward the whole Yiddish culture and literature and language with her entire fulness and her various aspects, to carry it forward, to immerse into it, to love it, and I think that there will be Yiddishists in every generation. Unfortunately, the older generation is gone so it’s possible that it will become more difficult to carry the “Yiddish Exile” as they say, but it’s also possible - one cannot be a prophet – it’s possible that from the Chasidim themselves will emerge a new Yiddishist wave. Just as the first Yiddishists came out of the religious world as it collided with the modern world, and Yiddishism was one outcome of that collision, that is how the enlightened literature was created. Hebreists and Yiddishists came out of that strong collision, and today we see that many Yiddishists are Chasidim that come out of the Chasidic world and they love Yiddish and it’s precious to them, and I think there will be some kind of synthesis, I don’t know what it will be exactly, but I hope that however it happens, it should remain an important part of the Jewish nation.
Eitan: Arun Vishwanath, thank you for sharing your time with me and my audience so we can hear your thoughts about Yiddish in today’s modern world. May God always send you a broom when you need one, and may He send one to us all.